103 Responses to Your thoughts on Provincial Leaders Debate

  1. Barb Bierman September 27, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Scot – you are asking for trouble! 🙂

  2. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 27, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    That’s my job.

  3. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Holy Deficit, Dalton McGuinty!

  4. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Mr. “fact of the matter” McGuinty.

  5. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    I haven’t decided on the winner yet, but Dalton is the LOSER!

  6. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    I don’t believe a word coming out of Dalton’s hands.

  7. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Does,Tim pluck his eyebrows?

  8. Dixon Parrks September 27, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Is it October 7th yet?

  9. newsfan September 27, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Why bother? JOHN friesen will be permitted to write a half a dozen pro-Lib articles as a follow-up.

  10. Jimm Hillis September 27, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Conservative and NDP, Green and Libertarian as well as independent are allowed as well , don’t go looking for a Conspiracy that doesn’t exist. The others know this site exists, if they don’t comment as much that is their decision, not ours.

  11. Facetious Lee September 27, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Speak up Newsfan!
    I can’t hear you.

  12. Rory Farnan September 27, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Premier Dalton McGuinty proved in the televised leaders’ debate that only the Ontario Liberals can provide the strong, steady leadership that Ontario needs in uncertain economic times.

    In the debate, Ontarians got to see the kind of leader Dalton McGuinty is — the strong, steady hand Ontario needs right now.

    Ontario Liberals have a strong team with a strong record and strong plan for Ontario.

    The world is changing fast, and Ontarians know that in these times we need strong, steady leadership — in job-creation, education and retraining, health care, the environment and building a clean-energy economy.

    Ontario Liberals moved quickly during the last recession to protect hundreds of thousands of jobs for our families.

    Now, we’re continuing to create tens of thousands of new jobs — building transit and infrastructure, hospitals and a new, clean-energy economy.
    The Hudak PCs have $14 billion in unfunded giveaways and tax cuts that would mean deep cuts to hospitals and schools. The Horwath NDP would introduce a crushing $9 billion in job-killing taxes. Both would take us off track at the worst time.

    What we have accomplished so far in the last eight years is nothing short of amazing. Only Ontario Liberals have the plan, the experience and the leadership to keep Ontario on track in perilous times in the global economy. And only Ontario Liberals can be counted on to keep what we’ve built together intact — our strong schools, hospitals and services — while moving Ontario forward. Together.

  13. newsfan September 27, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    What would you like me to share Facetious?

    Jimm, I’m not sure if I buy that. The Lib emphasis here is pretty blatant. And then there are the Cino’s.

  14. Hags September 27, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Sorry Rory but Dalton no scorrie. Dalton did not look strong and confident, in fact, he looked like a plucked chicken with a big adam’s apple and a wobbly neck….and why were his arms always flailing about?
    Anyway, few watched the debate but they did get to see Dalton do the Premier Dad, Father Knows Best schtick…without the widom however. In his defense we did get the message from him that Ontarion has the best gosh darned everything in the world…..gosh darn it!
    Next Timmy did a good job of looking young and squirting Dalton with the ‘credibility’ selzer bottle.
    And Andrea projected likeability and competence and showed she can play with the two ‘big geeky’ boys’.
    All in all, they were all well prepared and nothing of note happened…utterly predictable.
    Last, that ‘moving forward together’ bit is tired…oh so tired!

  15. Jimm Hillis September 27, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Newsfan, no matter what I say you are going to argue the opposite, it’s in your DNA and honestly while I appreciate your input I could really care less if you believe me or not after all you have no clue who I am and what I stand for, and let’s face it I have no clue who you are and maybe that is to be our destiny.

  16. Derek September 27, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    I think it is absolutely halarious that the liberals are trying to take a page right out of the federal conservative campiagn.

    “the strong, steady hand Ontario needs right now”….every liberal handler is trying this line and it is getting boring.

    I guess if they think it worked for the federal conservatives it might work for them.

    Must be pretty desparate times for the liberals to take a page from the federal conservatives.

    If the McGuinty/McGarry Liberals cannot even answer “What is the market doing today” at last Fridays debate. McGarry said “I don’t know” Real strong steady hand in this time of economic crisis? Give me a break Rory.

    The best line was that McGuinty said he didn’t raise taxes….oh the bubble the liberals have put around their crowd. Stead hand…hey wait, stop that power plant….go, stop, go…great desicion maker at hand. Good thing our mental health has been a priority for the liberals, according to them, they are going to need all the support when reality hits home on the 7th.

  17. Brian Galvao September 28, 2011 at 12:51 am

    These ‘Leaders’ debates highlight the unfortunate state that our democratic process is in at the present time. As many of those who will vote on election day use this event as their only ‘research’and many others allow this to actually sway their vote. In my opinion, unless you are part of their constituency, it is a complete waste of time as you will not see any of their names on the ballot come election day. The time would have been better spent reading the party platforms and then attending the next local debate to meet the people that will be on your ballot. Maybe throw them a question or two of your own to make it a little more personal tailored just for you. After all your local reps are the only ones that will/mau ever listen to your concerns, after all they are interviewing to become your employee.

    For those watching purely for entertainment value, there are much better choices this day and age.

    Cheers!

  18. Andrew Johnson September 28, 2011 at 12:59 am

    I thought the Green guy underwhelmed. Certainly the Green gal on the Paikin post-panel underwhelmed. Good grief!

  19. malcolm September 28, 2011 at 4:41 am

    Brian Galvao has it right. Talking of local candidates I had a friendly comversation with Mr. Leone and Linda Whetham. Would you believe they were knocking doors on my street. Having lived there twenty five years second time I ever met a politician in my area of Hespeler. I am impressed Mr. Leone.

  20. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 6:56 am

    This is the poll result from the live broadcast at The Star

    Poll: Who do you think is winning the debate?
    Dalton McGuinty (66%)
    Tim Hudak (14%)
    Andrea Horwath (20%)

  21. Derek September 28, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Scot…are those polling numbers that after the introductions?

    The Waterloo Region Record summed it up nicely, I know they have more staff and huge budgets, but you folks do a nice job with the limited funds 🙂

    http://www.therecord.com/news/canada/article/601137–jobs-and-taxes-put-mcguinty-on-defensive-as-ontario-leaders-face-off-in-debate

  22. Rory Farnan September 28, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Ah yes, The Record, the ‘conservatives herald’ if you will. The Record has been so biased this election I could get their site confused with the PC website itself.

  23. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 7:56 am

    No Derek, from the end of the debate, they are still up.
    I don’t agree that they have more staff. We have 150,000 citizens, we’re just waiting for the rest. 🙂
    We’re glad you found us and we hope to see you still here after the election.

  24. Derek September 28, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Rory, I am assuming the ‘liberal Citizen’ in Ottawa balances out the mirror liberal campaign site too, for the local boy.

    Interesting you call truth ‘bias’, there is an 8 year track record for the liberals that the McGuinty/McGarry Liberals are trying to hide from….with good reason.

    Liberals cannot even decide on where power plants are to be built if the voting GTA steps up. We are definitely familar with the Toronto and Ottawa focus by the liberals.

  25. Robert Ross September 28, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Newsfan, I do like reading your comments and get a chuckle from how you and Margaret have a running feud across various sites.I do noy feel a Liberal bias on this site.Scot and Jim have been open on what are their personal opionions and what they are reporting as news or fact.They have stated on numerous occasions that they welcome ALL views, after all they are running a business and the more hits they get, the better.The only way to get hits is to get content and they welcome content from ALL candidates.John has made it a point to use sites that have heavy traffic, and the Citizen is his vehicle of choice due to the traffic. I have posted when I felt it was important and needed to get a message out.
    Donna probably is not as alternate media savvy as John is and that may be a detriment to the NDP, we shall see on the 7th. The PCs seem to take the same stance on social media as they have in the debates,if you don’t say anything at all, you can’t say something wrong.Do I agree with everything posted? No, but the invitation to post is there for all to take advantage of if they choose.

  26. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Some good points, Rob. I must disappoint about newsie and mine’s ‘running feud across various sites..” It stopped ‘running’. I will never again respond to the anonymous and cowardly posts of ‘newsfan’; unless they are a direct insult to me, or a complete lie about me (which many are). Those I will not allow to stand. But on issues, it’s silly for me to spend time ‘fighting’ with someone that no one even knows; and according to several posts here and on the Times, the man has no ‘credibility’ anyway. The ‘fun’ is over. Newsie will have to find anotther sparring partner….but I bet he won’t. He seems intent on blasting, only me……Though I’ve never met the man (that I know of) and he claims to never have even heard my name until this election. Go figure…

  27. Gord Zeilstra September 28, 2011 at 10:25 am

    The whole broadcast last night was a huge disappointment. The only thing I think it settled was that voter turnout will be down because of last night’s showing, despite people knowing about an election on a fixed date for four years.

    This was a totally scripted, back-room run event. Questions were not answered… seriously struggling to think of one of the video questions that got a direct answer. Its like the broad stroke of the question was fed to the handlers and they prepared the talking points, and the leaders went with their message, not with the answer desired.

    McGuinty had facts, but “facts tell, stories sell”… and any story in this event came off as uncredible. Horwath had well-pointed interupted jabs, but little depth overall and Hudak looked mostly uncomfortable in his own skin, aside from a couple of late session interactions.

    McGuinty seemed to be playing to a larger more complete message, one that dealt with global competitiveness and hard-premier-like decisions, day in the life type stuff… but, he’s held the job for a long time, and well, it should be second nature, unscripted and more free (with less hand genstures, please). Watching Hudak, I was desperately wishing that we could return to a time when John Tory was leader and give him a re-do. With Horwath, it felt awkward at times, but in a different format, and with a little more practice (ie. the next election…), she will be the one to watch.

    The late nite show with Paikin… [wiw, he could’ve stepped it up big time!!!], was slightly better, but only because the journalist perspective from the guy at the Ottawa Citizen and quite frankly the former Green Party deputy leader (doing her best to play the non-partisan role), was slightly better.

    All in all… wondering where the CPC backroom braintrust was… clearly they have abandoned Tim Hudak because watching this election play out so far he doesn’t seem to have their attention, or coaching.

    just my 2 cents.

  28. Jimm Hillis September 28, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Debate is the death of conversation.

  29. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 11:05 am

    It’s good to see you here, Gord. I agree with you about Horwath. when I met her earlier this year she I found her captivating, and convincing.
    Next election?

  30. Barb Bierman September 28, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Best comparison (heard on facebook) – “What was with McGuinty’s hands? Does he think he’s a Jedi? – I am not the TaxMan you are looking for”

    Worst Defence – McGuinty defending his record on jobs: “I’m not saying it’s all sunshine and applepie…”

    Best Attack – Hudak to McGuinty: “Your jobs plan has been a failure.”

    And Best Headline – Hudak: “With all due respect sir, nobody believes you anymore”

  31. Johnny September 28, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    Ha! I get such a kick out of Barb’s “facebook” research. Next she might source Wikipedia or the Internet for her conclusions.

    Here is what various media outlets are saying about the debate. Even the traditionally right wing Ottawa Citizen has some good stuff.

    On Premier McGuinty’s leadership and vision:

    “Ontario Debate Viewers Say McGuinty Wins Debate” –Ipsos Reid flash poll, September 27, 2011

    “The overall effect, I think, was to put McGuinty’s vision in the centre of the table and suggest that the election is basically a referendum on that. Neither other leader on the stage has one as thorough and far-sighted.” – David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen, September 28, 2011

    “Dalton McGuinty gave a largely solid performance. His experience showed.” – Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen, September 28, 2011.

    “[There was a] strong attack by McGuinty on Hudak’s “foreign” comments.” – Globe and Mail editorial board

  32. Johnny September 28, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Oh yeah, and just for contrast, here are some statements about the performance of the Reckless Rookie aka: Tim Hudak

    On Tim Hudak’s Hudak’s failure to show leadership::

    “[Hudak] failed to seal the deal by offering a convincing vision of how he would do things differently.” –Toronto Sun Editorial, September 28, 2011

    “I thought [Hudak] missed the opportunity to show a boldness of vision and a higher view… he was talking about any kid running a lemonade stand, while the premier was talking about what Asian investors are going to say if we scrap Samsung. It’s just like two different planets they are on.” –Jim Coyle, The Agenda on TVO, September 27, 2011

    “Hudak [is] coming across as slick and processed.” – Kady O’Malley, CBC News

    Hudak wouldn’t say what he’ll cut to save two cents on a dollar outside health and education ministries.” – Paul Bliss, CTV News

    “Hudak’s impressive-sounding list of possible cuts yields few actual dollars” – Karim Bardeesy, Globe and Mail

    “Hudak was awfully quiet in the legislature when his federal party was giving Ontario billions to help bring in HST.” – Paul Bliss, CTV News

    “Hudak would do himself a favour by mentioning more ideas of his own.” – Adam Radwanski, Globe and Mail

  33. Johnny September 28, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    And one last post just so the PCs dont start thinking I’m picking on them – here is some attention to the equally weak NDP.

    On Andrea Horwath’s inexperience:

    “[Horwath] definitely appeared to be the most awkward out of the three. She was fidgeting more.” – Ric Phillips, President of 3V Communications, CFRB, September 27, 2011

    “I’m not sure [Horwath] was applying to be premier, though.” – David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen, September 28, 2011

    “She may be the leader you’d most like to invite ’round for a barbeque but the suspicion is that she couldn’t operate a spoon.” –John Ivison, National Post, September 28, 2011

    And for a few giggles on the Hudak-Horwath alliance/coaltion since they are like BFFs these days…

    “Hudak and Horwath were at their best playing the role of prosecutor, which is a key qualification for being an opposition leader.” -Martin Regg-Cohn, Toronto Star, September 28, 2011

    “Horwath and Hudak frequently agreed with one another.” –Rob Benzie, Toronto Star, September 28, 2011

    “Horwarth and Hudak’s [false] smiles at each other make me uncomfortable.” – Steve Ladurantaye, Globe and Mail

  34. Hags September 28, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Johnny, oh enigmatic wise Johnny…Tim doesn’t have to do much beyond proving he is not Dalton to keep in the race….neither does Andrea. Dalton cannot run from, the ‘believeability/ trust’ issue. And in my humble opinion, only someone in a coma the last eight years, would believe anything from Dalton’s lips…especially when they’re moving.
    By the way, where were you these last eight years?

  35. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Johnny, what a load of crap!
    Mr. “fact of the matter” McGuinty was the worst of the three. No doubt about it.
    Andrea was my favourite.
    Hey, Toastmaster Bill. What do you think?

  36. Hags September 28, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Allan, mysterious johnny rtites a lot like ‘prickly bill’ what say you o libertarian barbarian?

  37. Hags September 28, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    By the way, I put one spelling error in every post…sometimes too.

  38. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Excuse me Hags!
    Libertarians are not Barbarians.
    On the contrary, we are peaceful and loving.
    We wouldn’t even think of telling someone to shut up!

  39. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Oh, and Hags!
    We are also thrifty.
    Especially with Citizen’s tax dollars.

  40. Johnny September 28, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Hags, I appreciate the comment on my wisdom. Thanks

    But in reference to your “prickly Bill” comment, I am not him/her

    I don’t hide my identity behind some false name.

    I have not posted much in the last 8 years Hags, partly because I only recently discovered how cool this site is and what a fun bunch of people comment here (except the PCs of course) 🙂

  41. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    In the over-all scheme of things, I never care what another individual’s opinion of who won or lost a debate (whether they are journalists and have the pleasure of publicly sharing that opinion with thousands of others.. or it’s my next door neighbour’s). I care about my own. I place political writer’s opinions right up there with movie reviewers; Some of the best movies I’ve ever seen were panned in reviews. Some of the worst were given great reviews.

    Debate winners and losers are in the eye of the beholder..not determined by a person behind a keyboard.

  42. Hags September 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    ‘Johnny Grits’, you hang around this site much longer and we will convert you…it’s just a matter of time. It does however take courage to be right of center in this country…take courage wee johnny, take a leap of faith, leave your liberal arrogance behind and come to ‘the light.’
    P.s. It’s okay if you refer to me as ‘humble Hags’.

  43. Facetious Lee September 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Yep, Johnny, you are correct. This is a cool site!
    It’s the only consolation we Liberals and Libertarians will have for not winning the election – this time around.
    Yes, yes, Andrew. I know I am really a Conservative-Liberal working for the Libertarian Party who will get out of my face – unlike either the Liberals or Conservatives.
    Johnny, we will have to get together after Oct 6th and talk about what might have been if only…
    (We Libertarians may not win this time, but there will be more casting their vote for Libertarian than ever before in Cambridge).

  44. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    You tell ’em Facetious.
    Glad to have you on my campaign team!

  45. Facetious Lee September 28, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Andrew, I forgot if Dettweiler and I were Liberal-Conservatives or Conservative Liberals.

  46. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Mr. Lee, surely you jest! You are voting Libertarian? I am having a good cry…there’s another vote for Liberals.

  47. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Mr. Lee has a lot in common with our Libertarian Candidate.

  48. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    And what would that be, Scot? Less government intrusion in people’s lives, but changing whether women have the right to choose? Hey, just asking….

  49. Johnny September 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Yayyy, more Liberal votes.

    @Hags, as for converting me, you will have to try a lot harder. Have been a card carrying Liberal for 20 years.

    I do agree with Facetious Lee – it might be fun to have a few drinks as a community after Oct 6th. I would be curious to put faces to names of the ones I don’t already know. Make it a donation to the “Cambridge Citizen Server purchase Fund”

  50. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    See, Mr. Lee, even the Liberal Campaign Manager is thanking you for your vote, if you vote Libertarian.

  51. Facetious Lee September 28, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Yes Margaret, I am dreading another Liberal Government – if it were to happen.
    But, looking at the polls, it seems Mr. Leone is doing OK for the moment. Unless he says or does something stupid, I think Mrs. McGarry will continue to be a valued member of the Critical Care Team at CMH.
    So, it’s not this election the Conservatives need to worry about.
    It’s 2015 that Conservatives should dread even more. The message of Libertarianism will be even more appealing if whoever gets into power doesn’t do something about the dreaded deficit and debt.
    It sounds as if Conservative will maybe, perhaps, might, could start us on the road to fiscal responsibility. But, they have so many out there to keep happy – those who voted for them. It will not be easy.
    So, maybe the Libertarians will find fertile ground in 2015.
    You will need to keep that in mind. Four years will come quickly.
    As for women having a right to choose, you’ll have to speak to Mr. Dettweiler about that one. I’m sure he’s not too far away.

  52. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Facetious, can you post the link to the poll you are talking about? I’m having trouble finding local polls, and I’d like to see who is doing it.
    Thanks

  53. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Mr. Lee, Allan D, has made it very clear (even when not asked) that he is against a woman’s right to choose, and would fight healthcare funding for the procedure. So don’t go hiding behind Mr.Dettweiler. If you’re voting for him, surely you know what his agenda is…..?????

    I know that pro-choice is a contentious issue, and sometimes it’s difficult to come forward (on either side) to make an argument, for fear of retribution. But Dettweiler has made it very clear in debates, where he stands, and says his stand remains, no matter what other Libertarians may want to do……..

  54. Margaret Barr September 28, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Scot, the local poll results were published in the KW Record, (Monday).

  55. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Margaret, what I said, as I recall, in regard to abortion, is that not All Libertarians are against abortion.(or something to that effect).
    As with many, or probably all, of the parties, there is disagreement among members.
    I wanted to make it clear that this is my position personally.
    I haven’t checked with other Libertarian candidates on the question.
    I feel that it’s more about “unborn child’s right to live” or perhaps “unborn’s
    right to choose” than “woman’s right to choose.
    I said that one of the principles of the Libertarian Party is that we all have the right to choose to live our life as we see fit provided that in doing so we do not infringe on the EQUAL right of others to do the same.
    And for me, that EQUAL right applies to the unborn.

  56. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Margaret, unlike other parties, we have far less things we need to toe the party line on.
    We are entitled to our own opinions and beliefs so long as they don’t go against that important principle as mentioned in my last post.
    But, even Libertarians won’t agree on whether this “equal” right should be extended to woman or baby.
    When I lived in Huron County, I ran federally for the Libertarian Party. One of my opponents was my 3rd cousin Paul Steckle from the Liberal Party.
    Paul refused to toe the Liberal Party line on “gun control”.
    As a result, Chretian turfed him from the Liberal Agriculture Committee and put him on the Library Committee.
    That wouldn’t happen in the Libertarian Party (if we had those committees).
    Still, I would fight for the babies right to live.

  57. Sandra Hill September 28, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Listen Allan you are not a women and no man would give me the choice – there are reasons for everything in life and how we choose – if you are so righteous on this topic have a child –
    Man and woman get together and conceive – who is wrong? The guy for not protecting himself or should the women go through 9 months just because you said so!

  58. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Sandra, there are plenty of women who would agree with me – and plenty who wouldn’t.
    There are plenty of men who would agree with me – and plenty who wouldn’t.
    How many unborn children would agree with pro-lifers if they were given a choice?
    It is definitely not a matter of “just because (I) said so”.
    Is it the fault of the guy for not protecting himself? Or the woman for not insisting on him protecting himself? The baby won’t care about the outcome of that argument.
    For me, this is not a man/woman issue. It’s a baby issue (some of whom would have been future women).

  59. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Margaret, all I can find in The Record is an interview with a prof who says he agrees with last weeks “Robo Poll” that Leonne is leading, but it doesn’t name the poll. Shouldn’t they at least mention the source?

    I can’t seem to find the actual “poll results” you refer to.
    Margaret, being as you are responding to the question I asked Facetious, can you post the link to the poll you are talking about? I’d like to see who is doing it.

  60. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    …or are you people just blowing blue smoke and haven’t actually seen “The Poll.”

  61. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    In one of the latest polls, the Conservatives and Liberals are tied for 35 seats each.
    If you don’t want the NDP to have control, you better start voting Libertarian or Green.
    If you don’t vote for a small party, you will be responsible for the NDP controlling Ontario. Bob Rae all over again!

    There! Is that the same kind of logic the others are throwing at me?

  62. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:00 pm
  63. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Forum Research, but I’m sure you can read that.

  64. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Margaret, where will the Conservative victory party be?

  65. Sandra Hill September 28, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Allan – what is meant to be will be!
    No government should make this choice

    I have personally been to all debates and you state all type of issues should be at the municipal level – QUOTE – as a Libertarian we would not get involved with these issues!

    You need to take your book back to your party and revisit your personal attacks – and yes you have personally attacked me as a woman – maybe its time men have children
    Yes you think a child has a choice in this society when parents can not look after their children
    The government is so broke that they can not support these children and they are the ones to suffer – Remember it’s the children that suffer

    Your idea of getting involved in ones personal life is outrages and no government has a right – the government has too many rules already

    You need to revisit this issue

    Are you in favor of the death penalty?

  66. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Allan, the link is an article.(And you’re answering for Facetious now too? ) Where is the poll? Show me the poll! You people are talking about a poll that someone referred to in an article as if it’s gospel, but not one of you can actually show me the poll.

  67. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    …and nothing changes the fact I believe that Kathryn is the best candidate for Cambridge. If anything, a minority government means we should focus on who is going to do the most for Cambridge, and Kathryn already has.

  68. Hags September 28, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Ok, I’ll volunteer to have a baby!

  69. Robert Ross September 28, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Scot,if you pay 1000 per year you get to see the poll results, otherwise you are S.O.L. and can only get the report.

  70. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    If you people would take your blue tinted glasses off you’d be able to read “Based on his own reading of recent polls.”
    Not quite the same thing, is it there Margaret, Facetious and Allan? You are all here talking about a poll you haven’t even seen.
    Nice try.

  71. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Sandra, I’m really sorry you believe I have attacked you as a woman.
    That was not my intention.
    I would feel the same is men were having babies. Something to do with my upbringing.
    Adoption, Sandra. Lots of people waiting to adopt children. There are people who want these children.

    From the Libertarian website (Upper case letters mine).

    Our Statement of Principles declares that the only proper functions of government are national defence (protection from foreign invaders), the police (providing protection from criminals) and the courts settling, according to objective laws, disputes among individuals, where private, voluntary arbitration has failed). It is based on the premise that the only moral use of force is to PROTECT LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY. It only takes a moment to realize that 80% to 95% of government laws go beyond this and involve the threat to use force against citizens who have not initiated the use of force against others.

    So, I believe in the part above pertaining to life and liberty – and yes, for me that applies to the unborn. I acknowledge that the author of the above statement probably was not thinking of the unborn when he/she wrote that.
    So, there is no conflict because I spoke of many things being handled at the local level. The protection of the unborn could easily fall within the scope of what Libertarians are referring to as the “proper functions of government”.

    No, I am not in favour of the death penalty. I think that makes me a leftie – doesn’t it?
    But, if I could have got ahold of Olson, I would love to choke the living shit out of him. I understand the thinking of death penalty proponents. Especially for the likes of Bernardo, Olson, that pig farmer in B.C. and a relatively few others.
    But I also think of Marshall, Millguard, Moran and Truscott.

    Let me assure you, I am not out to attack anyone.
    I was happy that you introduced yourself at the debate.
    All the other candidates oppose me,it seems, on the issue we are debating – whatever name you put on it.
    They would all appreciate your support, I’m sure.

  72. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 28, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Oh, and the Forum research poll is the robo poll that has been discounted as not credible. Is that the one you are talking about Allan? I have seen the Poll, but I haven’t seen anything local.

    Forum Research September 22–23, 2011 HTML 35 35 23 5 Interactive voice response 0.5%

  73. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    I didn’t mean to speak for Facetious.
    I took some time to find what, I believe, Margaret was referring to when she said

    “Scot, the local poll results were published in the KW Record, (Monday)”.

    And in that “article” you can find the following statement.

    In Cambridge, Conservative Rob Leone holds an 8.2-point lead over Liberal candidate Kathryn McGarry. Leone declined to comment. McGarry’s campaign manager, John Friesen, dismissed the poll results as unimportant.

  74. Allan Dettweiler September 28, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Yes, that’s the one Scot.
    The one that SOME are discounting as not being credible.
    I will admit I wonder about a poll that has the Liberal Candidate in Kitchener-Waterloo ahead of Elizabeth Witmer. Good Gosh, Elizabeth Witmer is damn near a goddess in that riding! Almost like Hazel in Mississauga.
    I can’t understand why the electorate in Waterloo would reject Elizabeth at a time when the Conservatives are doing no worse than the Liberals.
    Personally, I would love to see Lizzie turfed. She pissed me off when she didn’t support Ted Arnott’s private members bill which would have let professional fire fighters from full-time departments also serve in volunteer departments in communities they live in. That after Ted Arnott supported her in her bid for the Premiership.
    She, like our good friend Kathryn McGarry, find it easier to get the support of groups of persons, rather than one person at a time. Elizabeth, like Kathryn, was kissing up to the Professional Fire Fighters who have demonstrated they don’t give a rat’s ass about people in the rural areas.
    Yes, I am pissed!

  75. Hags September 28, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Allan, with that kind of passion, you should maybe run for office….consider.

  76. Rory Farnan September 28, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    thespec.com leaders debate poll:

    Poll » Which of the three provincial party leaders was most effective in last night’s debate, in your view? Or were they all ineffective?

    McGuinty (41%), Horwath (26%), No clear winner (19%) Hudak (15%)

    When it comes to debating and negotiating a new 10 year health-care agreement with the Federal Conservatives, I want my Premier to be Dalton McGuinty. He’s stood up to Harper before. I believe Hudak will pander to Harper, which could mean that Hudak leaves things for Ontarians on the negotiation table.

  77. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 7:22 am

    So Allan, you, Facetious and Margaret are all spouting off about a “poll” that you not only cannot produce, you haven’t even seen.
    You people are quoting something you read about somebody’s opinion of a poll you can’t produce, yet you are all regurgitating it as if it is the Sermon on the Mount.
    “Hey, somebody said it and they printed it, so it must be true.”
    give me a break. Typical right wingers. Follow blindly and don’t ask questions.

  78. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 8:14 am

    Scot, you bring up the issue of credibilty as per the Forum Research Poll.
    Perhaps it does lack credibility.
    Just like any poll which claims McGuinty as being the most effective. That is absolute rubbish.
    If there was a winner, it was Andrea.
    McGuinty couldn’t look into the camera a lot of the time. He was looking a mite unconfortable. I think his conscience was beginning to bother him.

  79. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 8:19 am

    so you are admitting that you were talking about a poll you had never seen. That’s my point.

  80. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 8:20 am

    stop being evasive. you’re acting like a politician.

  81. Hags September 29, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Rory, what happened to that supposed ‘truculence’ that Dalton has, when he and Stevie rammed through the ‘reaming’ HST? Seems to me that he and Steve get along just fine.

  82. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Scot, I had seen the results, as published in THE RECORD. I didn’t spend any time trying to figure out how to spin it so it might appear to not be credible.
    Perhaps you and I should keep mum and wait for the big poll on October 6th.
    Then, one of us can say “I told you so”.

  83. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 8:36 am

    You know Scot, you should run for office.
    Someone has to be last. Better you than me.

  84. lynn September 29, 2011 at 8:52 am

    Mr. Dettweiler,
    I think you are wrong. Women should have the right their are very bad things that happen in this world and if a women gets raped and has to have that child how can she look into the eyes of that baby and forget what happened to her?
    What about when you have a medical condition and having children can threaten your life. The birth control on the market does not always work. So it would be better to have the child and die during child birth so now the child has to grow up with out a mother because you are so closed minded. I would love to hear what you have to say for these kinds of sittuations.

  85. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Allan, if people are going to quote polls I want to see them. The one subject I hated at university was statistics, I thought I’d never use it, and I use what I learned every day now.
    Don’t tell me Leone is 8 points ahead in the polls if you can’t show me the poll. Kathryn is way ahead in the Cambridge Times Poll, 63% to Rob’s 27%, maybe the liberals should start quoting that.
    You need to see the actual poll to determine the validity.
    Now stop blowing smoke and come back when you have something to back up your statements.

  86. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Lynn, first the rape issue.
    Every girl should be taught that if she is ever in that situation, that it is NOT her fault. She should be taught that there are people out there to help her.
    She should be taught to immediately talk to someone she trusts. A police woman, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, a member of the clergy, a parent. She should be told it is of utmost importance that she not wait to report this crime. That if she doesn’t report it immediately, some other girl or woman might become a victim.
    The situation needs to be dealt with IMMEDIATELY so it can be ensured she doesn’t become pregnant. So that there is no innocent child who is terminated further into a pregnancy.
    I have no problem with terminating a pregnancy before there is a beating heart.

    I know of only one example where the doctor told the parents it might be necessary to terminate the pregnancy to save the mother’s life.
    The husband told the doctor to do what necessary to save the mother’s life. He also made it clear that they wanted the child.
    Both mother and daughter ended up fine.
    This is the toughest situation I could possibly argue against. It is between mother, father and doctor. I would not want to even consider saying how this situation should be handled.

  87. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Allan, perhaps you could start a new post on your views as is seems your views on abortion are an issue. As you are a candidate we will allow it, but I don’t want to “muddy up the waters” on the issues in the campaign.
    I know you feel strongly about this, and I anticipate it might become rather heated.

  88. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Scot, I have been through this topic numerous times.
    If readers of THE CITIZEN look through this posting, they will pretty much see every argument that can be made for or against abortion.
    I have stated where I stand. I have made it clear.
    It comes down to either accepting or rejecting what myself and others have said.
    There are 5 other candidates – all of them pro-choice.
    Voters are free to reject what I have said when they vote.

  89. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Allan, this is not a campaign issue for any of the parties, and has nothing to do with the topic. I have brought your your column back to the top, please feel free to discuss this issue there.
    http://cambridgecitizen.ca/?p=10393

  90. Robert Ross September 29, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Scot , if you want to see the actual poll, the company charges a 1000 dollar per year subscription. I find these types very suspicious if they make a statement and won’t elease the actual raw data and criteria.

  91. Margaret Barr September 29, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Scot, talk about ‘blowing smoke’…That would be you, and only you. Today’s Toronto Star has an article about the same FORUM POLL (with the same results),though not as detailed as the KW report, it does give some Toronto riding results, but not the Waterloo ones. The Star did that on MOnday.

    There is no way that the KW Record or any other legitimate media would inaccurately quote a recognized Poll. If the Liberal Star and Record were going to ‘fudge’ numbers, it would most certainly do so in favour of the Libs….

    As for you using the Cambridge Times poll as any indication of true polling numbers, you have to be kidding. The Times Poll is where people can ‘click’ on the candidate of their choice. A true poll is where people are randomly contacted, and asked their opinions. You surely failed your statistics class if you didn’t at least learn what a poll is……………

    As for Pro-choice not being a campaign issue in this provincial election, you are blowing smoke again. It may not be made an issue by the parties (because none want to address it). However, this issue comes up all the time with provincial voters…It’s a question people raise at every level of government.

    Provincial governments are required to fund abortions in clinics, but some don’t. Quebec and N.S. provinces provide only partial funding to clinics and New Brunswick and Manitoba decline any such payments. N. S. government pays over $130,000 a year in penalties to the federal government, rather than abide by federal regulations.

    Lord, you ar wrong all the way around on your posts above. Either know what you’re talking about, or don’t talk…..

  92. Hags September 29, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Funny but I wrote a column for the Citizen about abortion and it drew zero comments. Either everyone agreed with my opinions….or abortion is not an issue.
    Funny but it’s usually liberals who raise the ‘Harper will take away your right to choose’ bugaboo, especially when they trail in the polls.
    But, lets see, 8 years of Stevie boy, and women still have the same over-reaching access to abortion as do the women of the odious regimes in Pyong Yang and Havana…I don’t know about you, but that fact shames me.
    It strikes me as funny that any woman would worry about abortion rights in Canada, when there is zero political will to even attempt to put rules around the procedure.

  93. Margaret Barr September 29, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Hags, I don’t think most women are “worried” about it; but it comes up at every election…

  94. Scot Ferguson-Barber September 29, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Margaret, the article in The Record was about how that poll was unreliable as it was done by computer, which isn’t much different than the poll at The Times.
    nowhere have I been able to find any poll that shows Leone ahead.
    I can’t question the validity of this mysterious poll if you don’t show it to me.

  95. Margaret Barr September 29, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Scot, you can’t read; No one in the Record said the poll was “unreliable” except the candidates and/or their campaign managers….Of course,Candidates behind in the poll, aren’t going to say it’s reliable! Candidates leading in the poll aren’t going to address it either, for fear some supporters may take the ‘lead’ as a reason to not bother to vote; figuring their candidate will win anyway….Use your head, please; and as Robert said; if you want to see the actual poll, you will have to do as Robert said…pay for it.

  96. Bill Kirby September 29, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    @Allan, your last post begs the question, when does life begin? at conception, when the first cells divide, when the heart beats? When?

  97. Margaret Barr September 29, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Bill, good luck on getting Allan to answer that one! He and Facetious Lee are too busy campaigning for the Libertarian Party to get into the scientific details of when life begins……

  98. Hags September 29, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    As the great philosopher once said…every sperm is sacred! But if that’s too early for some…then I’d say when the baby/fetus starts to look like us…it’s time to be very, very careful.
    Respect your opinion Margaret; one day we will find something substantive to agree upon…I hope.
    Scot, why do you let us get side-tracted, you hipster dufus?

  99. Bill Kirby September 29, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    @Margaret… not to mention the fact that is easy for a guy to be pro-life. He is not the one who has to carry the child live with the physical change.

  100. Bill Kirby September 29, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    @Hags… you often complain about math and yet the last time I checked 2011 minus 2006 equaled 5 not 8. Add the fact that until this spring Steve’O only had a minority and the abortion debate is quite the undertake with a minority gov.

  101. Hags September 29, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Bill, if one were to take men out of the abortion debate…it gets worse for the ‘choice’ side.

  102. Allan Dettweiler September 29, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Bill, think about what you just said. Doesn’t make sense.
    Women have babies every day. And, it is not easy.
    Maybe your mother should have had you snuffed just because pregnancy isn’t easy?
    Is that what you are saying?
    Most women out there are not happily having babies in spite of what they go through.
    Bill, as I have said before. Abortion is not a man or woman issue.
    It’s about the innocent unborn who need someone to speak up for them. You should do that Bill.

  103. Hags September 29, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Allan, if you can’t convince him the Liberals are a disaster…you’ll never convince him of anything else.

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